The 2019-2020 Demmyctwat Debates
Debate #2, Part 1a Transcript
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cratic-debate/
http://christian-identity.net/forum/...0103#post20103
http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...0103#post20103
Democratic presidential candidates took the stage for the first night of their second set of debates on Tuesday in Detroit. Below is a transcript that will be updated throughout the evening. Part 1 for tonight
.
Introduction for All 10 Candidates:
TAPPER: Welcome back to the CNN Democratic presidential debate candidates. We’re about to begin opening statements. But first, a review of the ground rules that your campaigns agreed to earlier this month to ensure a fair debate. As moderators, we will attempt to guide the discussion.
You will each receive one minute to answer questions, 30 seconds for responses and rebuttals and 15 additional seconds if a moderator asks for a clarification. The timing lights will remind you of these limits. Please respect that and please refrain from interrupting your fellow candidates during their allotted time. A candidate infringing on another candidate's time will have his or her time reduced.
We also want to ask our audience inside the historic Fox Theater to remain silent when the candidates are actively debating. The candidates need to be able to hear the questions and hear one another.
BASH: Time, now, for opening statements. You'll each receive one minute.
Governor Steve Bullock, please begin.
BULLOCK: Thanks, Dana,
I come from a state where a lot of people voted for Donald Trump. Let's not kid ourselves. He will be hard to beat. Yet watching that last debate, folks seemed more concerned about scoring points or outdoing each other with wish-list economics, than making sure Americans know we hear their voices and will help their lives.
Look, I'm a pro-choice, pro-union, populist Democrat who won three elections in a red state. Not by compromising our values, but by getting stuff done. That's how we win back the places we lost: showing up, listening, focusing on the challenges of everyday Americans.
That farmer getting hit right now by Trump's trade wars, that teacher working a second job, just to afford her insulin. They can't wait for a revolution. Their problems are in the here and now.
I’m a progressive, emphasis on progress, and I’m running for president to get stuff done for all those Americans Washington has left behind.
BASH: Marianne Williamson?
WILLIAMSON: Thank you.
In 1776 our founders brought forth on this planet an extraordinary new possibility. It was the idea that people, no matter who they were, would simply have the possibility of thriving. We have not ever totally actualized this ideal. But at the times when we have done best, we have tried. And when forces have opposed them, generations of Americans have risen up and pushed back against those forces.
We did that with abolition and with women's suffrage and with civil rights. And now it is time for a generation of Americans to rise up again, for an amoral economic system has turned short-term profits for huge multi-national corporations into a false god. And this new false god takes precedence over the safety and the health and the well-being of we the American people and the people of the world and the planet on which we live.
Conventional politics will not solve this problem because conventional politics is part of the problem. We the American people must rise up and do what we do best and create a new possibility, say no to what we don't want and yes to what we know can be true.
I'm Marianne Williamson, and that's why I'm running for president.
BASH: Congressman John Delaney?
DELANEY: Folks, we have a choice. We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us, which is with bad policies like Medicare for all, free everything and impossible promises that will turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected. That’s what happened with McGovern. That’s what happened with Mondale. That’s what happened with Dukakis. Or we can nominate someone with new ideas to create universal health care for every American with choice, someone who wants to unify our country and grow the economy and create jobs everywhere. And then we win the White House.
I'm the product of the American dream. I believe in it. I'm the grandson of immigrants, the son of a construction worker. My wife April and I have four amazing daughters. I was the youngest CEO in the history of the New York Stock Exchange, created thousands of jobs and then served in Congress. That's the type of background -- and my platform is about real solutions, not impossible promises, that can beat Trump and govern. Thank you.
BASH: Congressman Tim Ryan?
RYAN: America is great, but not everyone can access America's greatness. The systems that were built to lift us up are now suffocating the American people. The economic system that used to create $30, $40, $50 an hour jobs that you can have a good, solid middle-class living now force us to have two or three jobs just to get by.
Most families, when they go to sit at the kitchen table to do their bills, they get a pit in the middle of their stomach. We deserve better. And the political system is broken, too, because the entire conversation is about left or right, where are you at on the political system? And I'm here to say this isn't about left or right. This is about new and better. And it's not about reforming old systems. It's about building new systems.
And tonight, I will offer solutions that are bold, that are realistic and that are a clean break from the past.
BASH: Governor John Hickenlooper?
HICKENLOOPER: Last year Democrats flipped 40 Republican seats in the House, and not one of those 40 Democrats supported the policies of our front-runners at center stage.
Now, I share their progressive values, but I'm a little more pragmatic. I was out of work for two whole years until I started what became the largest brew pub in America. And I learned the small -- small business lessons of how to provide service and teamwork and became a top mayor, and as governor of Colorado created the number one economy in the country.
We also expanded health care and reproductive rights. We attacked climate change head-on. We beat the NRA. We did not build massive government expansions.
Now, some will promise a bill tonight or a plan for tonight. What we focused on was making sure that we got people together to get things done, to provide solutions to problems, to make sure that we -- that we worked together and created jobs. That's how we're going to beat Donald Trump. That's how we're going to win Michigan and the country.
BASH: Senator Amy Klobuchar?
KLOBUCHAR: Let's get real. Tonight we debate, but ultimately, we have to beat Donald Trump. My background, it's a little different than his. I stand before you today as a granddaughter of an iron ore miner, as a daughter of a union teacher and a newspaper man, as the first woman elected to the U.S. Senate from the state of Minnesota and a candidate for president of the United States.
That's because we come from a country of shared dreams, and I have had it with the racist attacks. I have had it with a president that says one thing on TV that has your back and then you get home and you see those charges for prescription drugs and cable and college.
You're going to hear a lot of promises up here, but I'm going to tell you this. Yes, I have bold ideas, but they are grounded in reality. And, yes, I will make some simple promises. I can win this. I'm from the Midwest. And I have won every race, every place, every time. And I will govern with integrity, the integrity worthy of the extraordinary people of this nation.
BASH: Congressman Beto O'Rourke?
O'ROURKE: I'm running for president because I believe that America discovers its greatness at its moments of greatest need. This moment will define us forever, and I believe that in this test America will be redeemed.
In the face of cruelty and fear from a lawless president, we will choose to be the nation that stands up for the human rights of everyone, for the rule of law for everyone, and a democracy that serves everyone. Whatever our differences, we know that, before we are anything else, we are Americans first, and we will ensure that each one of us is well enough and educated enough and paid enough to realize our full potential.
We will meet these challenges here at home, and we will lead the world in those that we face abroad, successfully confronting endless war and climate change. At this moment of truth, let us pursue our national promise and make a more perfect union of everyone, by everyone, and for everyone.
BASH: Mayor Pete Buttigieg?
BUTTIGIEG: I'm running for president because our country is running out of time. It is even bigger than the emergency of the Trump presidency. Ask yourself how somebody like Donald Trump ever gets within cheating distance of the Oval Office in the first place.
It doesn't happen unless America is already in a crisis -- an economy that's not working for everyone, endless war, climate change. We have lived this in my industrial Midwestern hometown. My generation has lived this as long as we have been alive.
And it’s only accelerating. Science tells us we have 12 years before we reach the horizon of catastrophe when it comes to our climate. By 2030, the average house in this country will cost half a million bucks and a women’s right to choose may not even exist.
We are not going to be able to meet this moment by recycling the same arguments, policies, and politicians that have dominated Washington for as long as I have been alive. We've got to summon the courage to walk away from the past and do something different. This is our shot. That is why I'm running for president.
BASH: Senator Elizabeth Warren?
WARREN: Donald Trump disgraces the office of president every single day. And anyone on this stage tonight or tomorrow night would be a far better president. I promise, no matter who our candidate is, I will work my heart out to beat Donald Trump and to elect a Democratic Congress.
But our problems didn't start with Donald Trump. Donald Trump is part of a corrupt, rigged system that has helped the wealthy and the well-connected and kicked dirt in the faces of everyone else.
We're not going to solve the urgent problems that we face with small ideas and spinelessness. We're going to solve them by being the Democratic Party of big structural change. We need to be the party that fights for our democracy and our economy to work for everyone.
You know, I know what's broken in this country, I know how to fix it, and I will fight to make it happen.
BASH: Senator Bernie Sanders?
SANDERS: Tonight in America, as we speak, 87 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured, but the health care industry made $100 billion in profits last year.
Tonight, as we speak, right now, 500,000 Americans are sleeping out on the street, and yet companies like Amazon that made billions in profits did not pay one nickel in federal income tax.
Tonight, half of the American people are living paycheck to paycheck, and yet 49 percent of all new income goes to the top 1 percent.
SANDERS: Tonight, the fossil fuel industry continues to receive hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks while they destroy this planet. We have got to take on Trump’s racism, his sexism, xenophobia and come together in an unprecedented grassroots movement, to not only defeat Trump but to transform our economy and our government.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Sanders.
Health Care:
Let's start the debate with the number-one issue for Democratic voters, health care. And Senator Sanders, let's start with you. You support Medicare for all, which would eventually take private health insurance away from more than 150 million Americans, in exchange for government-sponsored health care for everyone.
Congressman Delaney just referred to it as bad policy. And previously, he has called the idea "political suicide that will just get President Trump re-elected." What do you say to Congressman Delaney?
SANDERS: You're wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
Right now, we have a dysfunctional health care system: 87 million uninsured or underinsured, $500,000 -- 500,000 Americans every year, going bankrupt because of medical bills, 30,000 people dying while the health care industry makes tens of billions of dollars in profit.
Five minutes away from me and John is a country, it's called Canada. They guarantee health care to every man, woman and child as a human right. They spend half of what we spend. And by the way, when you end up in a hospital in Canada, you come out with no bill at all. Health care is a human right, not a privilege. I believe that, I will fight for that.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Sanders.
Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: Well, I'm right about this. We can create a universal health care system to give everyone basic health care for free, and I have a proposal to do it. But we don't have to go around and be the party of subtraction, and telling half the country, who has private health insurance, that their health insurance is illegal.
My dad, the union electrician, loved the health care he got from the IBEW. He would never want someone to take that away. Half of Medicare beneficiaries now have Medicare Advantage, which is private insurance, or supplemental plans. It's also bad policy. It'll underfund the industry, many hospitals will close...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: ... and it's bad policy.
TAPPER: Senator Sanders, I want to -- I...
WARREN (?): My name was also mentioned in this.
TAPPER: We're going to come to you in one second, but let me go to Senator Sanders right now.
Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: The fact of the matter is, tens of millions of people lose their health insurance every single year when they change jobs or their employer changes that insurance. If you want stability in the health care system, if you want a system which gives you freedom of choice with regard to a doctor or a hospital, which is a system which will not bankrupt you, the answer is to get rid of the profiteering of the drug companies...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
SANDERS: ... and the insurance companies, move to Medicare for all.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: But now he’s talking about a different issue. What I’m talking about is really simple. We should deal with the tragedy of the uninsured and give everyone health care as a right. But why do we got to be the party of taking something away from people?
WARREN: No. No one is the party...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Hold on one second, Senator.
DELANEY: That's what they're running on. They're running on...
WARREN: No.
DELANEY: ... telling half the country that your health insurance is illegal. It says it right in the bill.
TAPPER: All right, thank you.
DELANEY: We don't have to do that. We can give everyone health care...
TAPPER (?): OK.
DELANEY: ... and allow people to have choice. That's the American way.
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
Senator Warren?
WARREN: So, look. Let's -- let's be clear about this. We are the Democrats. We are not about trying to take away health care from anyone. That's what the Republicans are trying to do.
(APPLAUSE)
And we should stop using Republican talking points in order to talk with each other about how to best provide that health care.
Now, I want to have a chance to tell the story about my friend Ady Barkan. Ady is 35 years old. He has a wife, Rachael, he has a cute little boy named Carl. He also has ALS and it's killing him. Ady has health insurance, good health insurance...
TAPPER: Senator?
WARREN: ... and it's not nearly enough.
TAPPER: Senator? I want to -- I'm coming right...
WARREN: No, this is important.
TAPPER: ... I'm staying with you, I'm staying with you. But you exceeded your time. So let me just stay with you on Medicare for all.
WARREN: All right.
TAPPER: At the last debate, you said you’re, quote, “with Bernie on Medicare for all.” Now, Senator Sanders has said that people in the middle class will pay more in taxes to help pay for Medicare for all, though that will be offset by the elimination of insurance premiums and other costs. Are you also, quote, “with Bernie” on Medicare for all when it comes to raising taxes on middle-class Americans to pay for it?
WARREN: So giant corporations and billionaires are going to pay more. Middle-class families are going to pay less out of pocket for their health care. And I'd like to finish talking about Ady, the guy who has ALS...
(CROSSTALK)
WARREN: This isn’t funny. This is somebody who has health insurance and is dying. And every month, he has about $9,000 in medical bills that his insurance company won’t cover. His wife, Rachael, is on the phone for hours and hours and hours, begging the insurance company, “Please cover what the doctors say he needs.”
He talks about what it's like to go online with thousands of other people to beg friends, family, and strangers for money so he can cover his medical expenses.
The basic profit model of an insurance company is taking as much money as you can in premiums and pay out as little as possible in health care coverage. That is not working for Americans...
TAPPER: Thank you.
WARREN: ... across this country...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: Medicare for All will fix that, and that's why I'll fight for it.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. Just a point of clarification...
(APPLAUSE)
... in 15 extra seconds, would you raise taxes on the middle class to pay for Medicare for All, offset, obviously, by the elimination of insurance premiums, yes or no?
WARREN: Costs will go up for billionaires and go up for corporations. For middle-class families, costs -- total costs -- will go down.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Governor Bullock, I want to bring you in. You do not support Medicare for All. How do you respond to Senator Warren?
BULLOCK: No, health care is so personal to all of us. Never forget when my 12-year-old son had a heart attack within 24 hours of his life. Had to be life-flighted to Salt Lake City. But because we had good insurance, he's here with me tonight.
At the end of the day, I'm not going to support any plan that rips away quality health care from individuals. This is an example of wish list economics. It used to be just Republicans who wanted to repeal and replace. Now many Democrats do, as well. We can get there with a public option, negotiating drug prices, ending...
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor Bullock.
I want to bring in Mayor Buttigieg. On the topic of whether or not the middle class should pay higher taxes in exchange for guaranteed health care and the elimination of insurance premiums, how do you respond, Mayor?
BUTTIGIEG: So we don't have to stand up here speculating about whether the public option will be better or a Medicare for All environment will be better than the corporate options. We can put it to the test.
That's the concept of my Medicare for All Who Want It proposal. That way, if people like me are right that the public alternative is going to be not only more comprehensive, but more affordable than any of the corporate options around there, we'll see Americans walk away from the corporate options into that Medicare option, and it will become Medicare for All without us having to kick anybody off their insurance.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Just 15 seconds on the clarification. You are willing to raise taxes on middle-class Americans in order to have universal coverage with the disappearance of insurance premiums, yes or no?
BUTTIGIEG: I think you can buy into it. That's the idea of Medicare for All Who Want It. Look, this is a distinction without a difference, whether you're paying the same money in the form of taxes or premiums. Look, in this country, if you have health coverage -- if you don't have health coverage, you're paying too much for care, and if you do have health coverage, you're paying too much for care.
TAPPER: Thank you, Mayor Buttigieg. I want to bring in Congressman O'Rourke on the topic of whether the middle class should pay higher taxes in exchange for universal coverage and the elimination of insurance premiums. What's your response?
O'ROURKE: The answer is no. The middle class will not pay more in taxes in order to ensure that every American is guaranteed world-class health care. I think we're being offered a false choice, some who want to improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins, others who want a Medicare for All program that will force people off of private insurance, I have a better path.
Medicare for America. Everyone who is uninsured is enrolled in Medicare tomorrow. Those who are insufficiently insured are enrolled...
TAPPER: Congressman...
O'ROURKE: ... in Medicare...
TAPPER: Just a 15 seconds...
O'ROURKE: And those who have employer-sponsored insurance...
TAPPER: Who is offering -- who is offering a false choice here?
O'ROURKE: Jake, this is important.
TAPPER: Who's offering a false choice here?
O’ROURKE: You have some. Governor Bullock, who’s said that we will improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins with a public option. You have others to my right who are talking about taking away people’s choice for the private insurance they have or members of unions. I was listening to Dee Taylor in Nevada...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman. Governor Bullock...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: ... he just said you're offering a false choice, sir.
BULLOCK: Congressman, not at all. You know, it took us decades and false starts to get the Affordable Care Act. So let's actually build on it. A public option, allowing anyone to buy in.
You know, we pay more for prescription drugs than any place actually in the world. We got nothing to show for it. Negotiate prescription drug prices. End surprise medical billing. That's the way that we can get there without disrupting the lives of 160 million people that like their employer-sponsored health insurance.
TAPPER: Congressman O’Rourke, you can respond. Congressman O’Rourke, you can respond.
O'ROURKE: Every estimate that I've seen of expanding ACA even through a public option still leaves millions of people uninsured and also means that people are not guaranteed the health care that they need, as the example that Senator Warren showed us.
Our plan ensures that everyone is enrolled in Medicare or can keep their employer-sponsored insurance. When we listen to the American people -- and this is what they want us to do -- they want everyone covered, but they want to be able to maintain choice...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
O'ROURKE: ... and our plan does that.
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman. I want to bring in Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Warren at the beginning of the night said that Democrats cannot bring -- cannot win the White House with small ideas and spinelessness. In the last debate, she said the politicians who are not supporting Medicare for All simply lack the will to fight for it. You do not support Medicare for All. Is Senator Warren correct? Do you just not lack the will to fight for it?
KLOBUCHAR: That is incorrect. I just have a better way to do this. And in one of my first debates, Jake, I was called a street fighter from the iron range by my opponent. And when she said it, I said thank you.
So this is what I think we need to get done. We need the public option. That's what Barack Obama wanted, and it would bring health care costs down for everyone.
And by the way, I just don't buy this. I've heard some of these candidates say that it's somehow not moral if you -- not moral to not have that public option. Well, Senator Sanders was actually on a public option bill last year, and that was, Bernie, the Medicaid public option bill that Senator Schatz introduced.
Clearly, this is the easiest way to move forward quickly, and I want to get things done. People can't wait. I've got my friend, Nicole, out there whose son was actually died trying to ration his insulin as a restaurant manager. And he died because he didn't have enough money to pay for it.
TAPPER: Senator...
SANDERS: Jake.
KLOBUCHAR: And Bernie and I have worked on pharmaceutical issues together.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
KLOBUCHAR: We can get less expensive drugs.
TAPPER: Senator Sanders -- I'm going to go to Senator Sanders, then Senator Warren, because you both were mentioned. Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: As the author -- as the author of the Medicare bill, let me clear up one thing. As people talk about having insurance, there are millions of people who have insurance, they can't go to the doctor, and when they come out of the hospital, they go bankrupt. All right?
(APPLAUSE)
What I am talking about and others up here are talking about is no deductibles and no co-payments. And, Jake, your question is a Republican talking point. At the end of the day...
(APPLAUSE)
And by the way -- and by the way -- by the way -- the health care industry will be advertising tonight on this program.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. Senator Warren, it's your turn.
SANDERS: Oh, can I complete that, please?
TAPPER: Your time is up. Thirty seconds.
SANDERS: They will be advertising tonight with that talking point.
TAPPER: Senator Warren?
WARREN: So we have to think of this in terms of the big frame. What's the problem in Washington? It works great for the wealthy. It works great for those who can hire armies of lobbyists and lawyers. And it keeps working great for the insurance companies and the drug companies.
What it's going to take is real courage to fight back against them. These insurance companies do not have a God-given right to make $23 billion in profits and suck it out of our health care system.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: They do not have a God-given right...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
(APPLAUSE)
KLOBUCHAR: On page eight of the bill it says...
WARREN: ... to put...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I want to let Congressman Delaney in.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. If we could all just stick to the rules of the time, that would be great. Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: So I was -- I'm the only one on this stage who actually has experience in the health care business. And with all due respect, I don't think my colleagues understand the business. We have the public option, which is great.
SANDERS: It's not a business!
(APPLAUSE)
DELANEY: The public option is great, but it doesn't go far enough. It doesn't go far enough. I'm proposing universal health care, where everyone gets health care as a basic human right for free, but they have choices. My plan, BetterCare, is fully paid for without raising middle class tax options. So when we think about this debate...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: There's Medicare for All, which is extreme...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: I was interrupted.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I want to bring in -- I want to bring in Governor Hickenlooper. Governor Hickenlooper, I'd like to hear what you say about Senator Warren's suggestion that those people on the stage who are not in favor of Medicare for All lack the political will to fight for it.
HICKENLOOPER: Well, obviously, I disagree with that as much as I respect both of the senators to my right. You know, it comes down to that question of Americans being used to being able to make choices, to have the right to make a decision. And I think proposing a public option that allows some form of Medicare that maybe is a combination of Medicare Advantage and Medicare, but people choose it, and if enough people choose it, it expands, the quality improves, the cost comes down, more people choose it, eventually, in 15 years, you could get there, but it would be an evolution, not a revolution.
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor. Senator Warren?
WARREN: You know...
(UNKNOWN): Jake?
WARREN: ... we have tried this experiment with the insurance companies. And what they've done is they've sucked billions of dollars out of our health care system. And they force people to have to fight to try to get the health care coverage that their doctors and nurses say that they need.
Why does everybody -- why does every doctor, why does every hospital have to fill out so many complicated forms? It's because it gives insurance companies a chance to say no and to push that cost back on the patients.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: That's what we have to fight.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Marianne Williamson. Ms. Williamson, how do you respond to the criticism from Senator Warren that you’re not willing to fight for Medicare for All?
WILLIAMSON: I don't know if Senator Warren said that about me specifically. I admire very much what Senator Warren has said and what Bernie has said.
But I have to say, I have -- I'm normally way over there with Bernie and Elizabeth on this one. I hear the others. And I have some concern about that, as well. And I do have concern about what the Republicans would say. And that's not just a Republican talking point. I do have concern that it will be difficult. I have concern that it will make it harder to win, and I have a concern that it'll make it harder to govern. Because if that's our big fight, then --
TAPPER: Thank you Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: The Republicans will so shut us down on everything else.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Mayor Buttigieg -- Mayor Buttigieg, your response?
BUTTIGIEG: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if --
(APPLAUSE)
If it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists.
So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it. That's the policy I'm putting forward, not because I think it's the right triangulation between Republicans here and Democrats there -- because I think it's the right answer for people like my mother-in-law who is here -- whose life was saved by the ACA, but who is still far too vulnerable to the fact that the insurance industry does not care about her --
TAPPER: Thank you Mayor Buttigieg, Senator Sanders your response?
SANDERS: Let's be clear what this debate is about. Nobody can defend the dysfunctionality of the current system. What we are taking on is the fact that over the last 20 years the drug companies and the insurance companies have spent $4.5 billion of your health insurance money on lobbying and campaign contributions.
That is why when I went to Canada the other day, people paid one-tenth the price in Canada for insulin that they're paying in the United States --
TAPPER: Thank you Senator. I want to bring in Congressman Tim Ryan, Congressman Ryan your response?
RYAN: So here we are in Detroit, home of the United Auto workers. We have all our union friends here tonight. This plan that's being offered by Senator Warren and Senator Sanders will tell those Union members who gave away wages in order to get good healthcare that they're going to lose their healthcare because Washington's going to come in and tell them they got a better plan.
This is the left and right thing -- new and better is this, move Medicare down to 50. Allow people to buy-in, Kaiser Permanente said that if they -- those 60 million people do that, they will see --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
RYAN: A 40 percent reduction --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
RYAN: In their healthcare cost, let businesses buy-in, Jake --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman. So Senator, let's talk about that. If Medicare for all is enacted, there are more than 600,000 union members here in Michigan who would be forced to give up their private healthcare plans.
Now, I understand that it would provide universal coverage -- but, can you guarantee those union members that the benefits under Medicare for all will be as good as the benefits that they're representatives -- their union reps fought hard to negotiate?
SANDERS: Well two things, they will be better because Medicare for all is comprehensive -- it covers all healthcare needs. For senior citizens it will finally include dental care, hearing aids and eyeglasses.
RYAN: But you don't know that -- you don't know that, Bernie.
SANDERS: Second of all --
TAPPER: I'll come to you in a second, Congressman.
SANDERS: I do know it, I wrote the damn bill. And second of all, second of all -- many of our union brothers and sisters, nobody more pro-union than me up here, are now paying high deductibles and copayments when we do Medicare for all, instead of having the company putting money in to healthcare, they can get decent wage increases, which they're not getting today.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Congressman Ryan to respond to what Senator Sanders just said.
RYAN: I mean, Senator Sanders does not know all of the union contracts in the United States. I'm trying to explain that these union members are losing their jobs, their wages have been stagnant, the world is crumbling around them -- the only thing they have is possibly really good healthcare.
And the Democratic message is going to be, we're going to go in and the only thing you have left we're going to take it and we're going to do better. I do not think that's a recipe for success for us, it's bad policy and it's certainly bad politics.
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney.
DELANEY: So the bill that Senator Sanders drafted, by definition will lower quality in healthcare, because it says specifically that the rates will be the same as current Medicare rates. And the data is clear, Medicare does not cover the cost of healthcare, it covers 80 percent of the costs of healthcare in this country.
And private insurance covers 120 percent, so if you start underpaying all the healthcare providers, you're going to create a two tier market where wealthy people buy their healthcare with cash, and the people who are forced -- like my dad, the union electrician --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
DELANEY: Will have that healthcare plan taken away from him --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman --
DELANEY: They will be forced into an underfunded system.
TAPPER: I want to give Senator Sanders -- I want to give Senator Sanders a chance to respond.
SANDERS: On the Medicare for all, the hospitals will save substantial sums of money because they're not going to be spending a fortune doing billing and the other bureaucratic things that they have to do today.
Second of all --
DELANEY: I've done the math, it doesn't add up.
SANDERS: Maybe you did that and made money off of healthcare, but our job is to run a nonprofit healthcare system. Furthermore -- furthermore, when we say $500 billion a year by ending all of the incredible complexities that are driving every American crazy trying to deal with the health insurance companies --
TAPPER: Thank you Senator.
SANDERS: Hospitals will be better off than they are today.
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney, I want to let you have a chance to respond.
DELANEY: Listen, his math is wrong. That's all I'm saying -- that his math is wrong, it's been well-documented that if all the bills were paid at Medicare rate, which is specifically -- I think it's in section 1,200 of their bill, then many hospitals in this country would close.
I've been going around rural America, and I ask rural hospital administrators one question, "If all your bills were paid at the Medicare rate last year, what would happen?"
And they all look at me and say, "We would close."
But the question is, why do we have to be so extreme? Why can't we just give everyone health care as a right, and allow them to have choice?
BASH: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: I'm starting to think this is not about health care...
BASH: Thank you, Congressman...
DELANEY: This is an anti-private-sector...
BASH: Thank you Congressman. We're going to move on.
DELANEY: ... strategy.
Immigration:
BASH: We're going to move on to the issue of immigration now. There is...
(APPLAUSE)
... widespread agreement on this stage on the need for immigration reform, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, including dreamers. But there are some areas of disagreement.
Mayor Buttigieg, you're in favor of getting rid of the law that makes it a crime to come across the U.S. border illegally. Why won't that just encourage more illegal immigration?
BUTTIGIEG: When I am president, illegally crossing the border will still be illegal. We can argue over the finer points of which parts of this ought to be handled by civil law and which parts ought to be handled by criminal law. But we've got a crisis on our hands. And it's not just a crisis of immigration; it's a crisis of cruelty and incompetence that has created a humanitarian disaster on our southern border. It is a stain on the United States of America.
Americans want comprehensive immigration reform. And frankly, we've been talking about the same framework for my entire adult lifetime, protections for DREAMers; making sure that -- that we have a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented; cleaning up lawful immigration.
We know what to do. We know that border security can be part of that package and we can still be a nation of laws. The problem is we haven't had the will to get it done in Washington. And now we have a president who could fix it in a month, because there is that bipartisan agreement, but he needs it to be a crisis rather than an achievement. That will end on my watch.
BASH: But just a point of clarification, you did raise your hand in the last debate. You do want to decriminalize crossing the border illegally?
BUTTIGIEG: So in my view, if fraud is involved, then that's suitable for the criminal statute. If not, then it should be handled under civil law. But these show of hands are exactly what is wrong with the way that this race is being covered.
BASH: Well, we're not -- we're not doing that here.
BUTTIGIEG: And we appreciate that.
BASH: Congressman -- thank you. Congressman...
(APPLAUSE)
... O'Rourke, you live near the U.S.-Mexico border in El Paso. You disagree with Mayor Buttigieg on decriminalizing the border crossings. Please respond.
O'ROURKE: I do, because, in my administration, after we have waived citizenship fees for green card holders, more than 9 million of our fellow Americans; freed DREAMers from any fear of deportation; and stopped criminally prosecuting families and children for seeking asylum and refuge; end for-profit detention in this country; and then assist...
(APPLAUSE)
... those countries in Central America so that no family ever has to make that 2,000-mile journey, than I expect that people who come here follow our laws, and we reserve the right to criminally prosecute them if they do not.
BASH: Thank you, Congressman.
Senator Warren, you say the provision making illegal border crossings a crime is totally unnecessary. Please respond.
WARREN: So the problem is that, right now, the criminalization statute is what gives Donald Trump the ability to take children away from their parents. It's what gives him the ability to lock up people at our borders.
We need to continue to have border security, and we can do that, but what we can't do is not live our values. I've been down to the border. I have seen the mothers. I have seen the cages of babies. We must be a country that every day lives our values. And that means we cannot...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... make it a crime...
BASH: Just to clarify...
WARREN: ... when someone...
BASH: Thank you, Senator. Just to clarify, would you decriminalize...
WARREN: Yes.
BASH: ... illegal border crossings?
WARREN: The point is not about criminalization. That has given Donald Trump the tool to break families apart.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: We need...
BASH: Governor Hickenlooper, your response?
HICKENLOOPER: I agree that we need secure borders. There's no question about that. And the frustration with what's going on in Washington is they're kicking the ball back and forth. Secure the borders, make sure whatever law we have doesn't allow children to be snatched from their parents and put in cages. How hard can that be?
We've got -- I don't know -- on the two debate nights, we've got 170 years of Washington experience. Somehow it seems like that should be fairly fixable.
WARREN: Well, and one way to fix it is to decriminalize. That's the whole point. What we're...
(APPLAUSE)
... looking for here is a way to take away the tool that Donald Trump has used...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... to break up families.
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Klobuchar, your response?
KLOBUCHAR: I would say there is the will to change this in Congress. What's missing is the right person in the White House. I believe that immigrants don't diminish America; they are America. And if you want to do something...
(APPLAUSE)
... about border security, you first of all change the rules so people can seek asylum in those Northern Triangle countries.
Then, you pass the bill. And what the bill will do is, it will greatly reduce the deficit and give us some money for border security and for border processing the cases. And most of all, it will allow for a path to citizenship.
Because this is not just about the border...
BASH: Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: ... Donald Trump wants to use these people as political pawns, when we have people...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Klobuchar.
KLOBUCHAR: ... all over our country that simply want to work...
BASH: Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: ... and obey the law.
BASH: Senator Sanders, you want to provide undocumented immigrants free health care and free college. Why won't this drive even more people to come to the U.S. illegally?
SANDERS: Because we’ll have strong border protections. But the main point I want to make is that what Trump is doing through his racism and his xenophobia, is demonizing a group of people. And as president, I will end that demonization.
If a mother and a child walk thousands of miles on a dangerous path, in my view, they are not criminals.
(APPLAUSE)
They are people fleeing violence. And I think the main thing that we’ve got to do -- among many others, and Beto made this point -- we’ve got to ask ourselves, “Why are people walking 2,000 miles to a strange country where they don’t know the language?”
So what we will do, the first week we are in the White House, is bring the entire hemisphere together to talk about how we rebuild Honduras...
BASH: Thank...
SANDERS: ... Guatemala and El Salvador so people do not have to flee their own countries.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
Governor Bullock, about two-thirds of Democratic voters and many of your rivals here for the nomination, support giving health insurance to undocumented immigrants. You haven't gone that far. Why not?
BULLOCK: Look, I think this is the part of the discussion that shows how often these debates are detached from people's lives. We've got 100,000 people showing up at the border right now. If we decriminalize entry, if we give health care to everyone, we'll have multiples of that. Don't take my word, that was President Obama's Homeland Security secretary that said that.
The biggest problem right now that we have with immigration, it's Donald Trump. He's using immigration to not only rip apart families, but rip apart this country. We can actually get to the point where we have safe borders, where we have a path to citizenship, where we have opportunities for Dreamers.
And you don't have to decriminalize everything. What you have to do is have a president in there with the judgment and the decency to treat someone that comes to the border like one of our own.
WARREN: You know, I just wanted to...
BASH: Senator...
WARREN: ... add on this...
BASH: ... he just said your plan in unrealistic. How do you respond?
WARREN: You know, I think that what we have to do, is we have to be an America that is clear about what we want to do with immigration. We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for Dreamers but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas...
(APPLAUSE)
... we need to fix the crisis at the border. And a big part of how we do that, is we do not play into Donald Trump's hands.
BULLOCK: But...
WARREN: He wants to stir up the crisis at the border because that's his overall message. It's -- if there's anything wrong in your life, blame them.
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
Governor Bullock, your response?
BULLOCK: But you are playing into Donald Trump's hands. The challenge isn't that it's a criminal offense to cross the border. The challenge is that Donald Trump is president, and using this to rip families apart.
A sane immigration system needs a sane leader. And we can do that without decriminalizing and providing health care for everyone.
And it's not me saying that, that's Obama's Homeland Security secretary...
WARREN: No.
BULLOCK: ... that said you'll cause further problems at the border, not making it better.
WARREN: What -- what you're saying is ignore the law. Laws matter. And it matters if we say our law is that we will lock people up who come here, seeking refuge, who come here, seeking asylum, that is not a crime. And as Americans, what we need to do is have a sane system that keeps us safe at the border, but does not criminalize the activity...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... of a mother fleeing here for safety.
(CROSSTALK)
BULLOCK: Dana, I must correct the record
BASH: Congressman Ryan, are Senator Sanders’ proposals going to incentivize undocumented immigrants to come into this country illegally?
RYAN: Yes. And right now, if you want to come into the country, you should at least ring the doorbell. We have asylum laws. I saw the kids up in Grand Rapids, not far from here. It is shameful what's happening. But Donald Trump is doing it.
And even if you decriminalize, which we should not do, you still have statutory authority. The president could still use his authority to separate families. So we've got to get rid of Donald Trump. But you don't decriminalize people just walking into the United States. If they're seeking asylum, of course, we want to welcome them. We're a strong enough country to be able to welcome them.
And as far as the healthcare goes, undocumented people can buy healthcare too. I mean everyone else in America is paying for their healthcare. I think - I don't think it's a stretch for us to ask undocumented people in the country to also pay for healthcare.
BASH: Senator Sanders, your response?
SANDERS: Well, I have two things. A sane immigration policy moves the comprehensive immigration reform. It moves to a humane border policy, and which, by the way, we have enough administrative judges, so that we don’t have incredible backlogs that we have right now.
But to your answer your question, I happen to believe that when I talk about healthcare as a human right that applies to all people in this country, and under a Medicare for All single payer system, we could afford to do that.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: Senator Sanders, thank you. And Ms. Williamson, your response?
WILLIAMSON: Everything that we're talking about here tonight is what's wrong with American politics, and the Democratic Party needs to understand that we should be the party that talks, not just about symptoms, but also about causes. When it - when we're talking about healthcare, we need to talk about more than just the healthcare plan.
We need to realize, we have a sickness care rather than a healthcare system. We need to be the party talking about why so many of our chemical policies and our food policies and our agricultural policies and our environment policies and even our economic policies are leading to people sick to begin with.
LEMON: Thank you --
WILLIAMSON: That's what the democratic -- but I want to say more --
LEMON: Thank you, Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: -- about. OK.
LEMON: Thank you, Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: I hope you’ll come back to me this time.
Debate #2, Part 1a Transcript
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cratic-debate/
http://christian-identity.net/forum/...0103#post20103
http://whitenationalist.org/forum/sh...0103#post20103
Democratic presidential candidates took the stage for the first night of their second set of debates on Tuesday in Detroit. Below is a transcript that will be updated throughout the evening. Part 1 for tonight
.
Introduction for All 10 Candidates:
TAPPER: Welcome back to the CNN Democratic presidential debate candidates. We’re about to begin opening statements. But first, a review of the ground rules that your campaigns agreed to earlier this month to ensure a fair debate. As moderators, we will attempt to guide the discussion.
You will each receive one minute to answer questions, 30 seconds for responses and rebuttals and 15 additional seconds if a moderator asks for a clarification. The timing lights will remind you of these limits. Please respect that and please refrain from interrupting your fellow candidates during their allotted time. A candidate infringing on another candidate's time will have his or her time reduced.
We also want to ask our audience inside the historic Fox Theater to remain silent when the candidates are actively debating. The candidates need to be able to hear the questions and hear one another.
BASH: Time, now, for opening statements. You'll each receive one minute.
Governor Steve Bullock, please begin.
BULLOCK: Thanks, Dana,
I come from a state where a lot of people voted for Donald Trump. Let's not kid ourselves. He will be hard to beat. Yet watching that last debate, folks seemed more concerned about scoring points or outdoing each other with wish-list economics, than making sure Americans know we hear their voices and will help their lives.
Look, I'm a pro-choice, pro-union, populist Democrat who won three elections in a red state. Not by compromising our values, but by getting stuff done. That's how we win back the places we lost: showing up, listening, focusing on the challenges of everyday Americans.
That farmer getting hit right now by Trump's trade wars, that teacher working a second job, just to afford her insulin. They can't wait for a revolution. Their problems are in the here and now.
I’m a progressive, emphasis on progress, and I’m running for president to get stuff done for all those Americans Washington has left behind.
BASH: Marianne Williamson?
WILLIAMSON: Thank you.
In 1776 our founders brought forth on this planet an extraordinary new possibility. It was the idea that people, no matter who they were, would simply have the possibility of thriving. We have not ever totally actualized this ideal. But at the times when we have done best, we have tried. And when forces have opposed them, generations of Americans have risen up and pushed back against those forces.
We did that with abolition and with women's suffrage and with civil rights. And now it is time for a generation of Americans to rise up again, for an amoral economic system has turned short-term profits for huge multi-national corporations into a false god. And this new false god takes precedence over the safety and the health and the well-being of we the American people and the people of the world and the planet on which we live.
Conventional politics will not solve this problem because conventional politics is part of the problem. We the American people must rise up and do what we do best and create a new possibility, say no to what we don't want and yes to what we know can be true.
I'm Marianne Williamson, and that's why I'm running for president.
BASH: Congressman John Delaney?
DELANEY: Folks, we have a choice. We can go down the road that Senator Sanders and Senator Warren want to take us, which is with bad policies like Medicare for all, free everything and impossible promises that will turn off independent voters and get Trump re-elected. That’s what happened with McGovern. That’s what happened with Mondale. That’s what happened with Dukakis. Or we can nominate someone with new ideas to create universal health care for every American with choice, someone who wants to unify our country and grow the economy and create jobs everywhere. And then we win the White House.
I'm the product of the American dream. I believe in it. I'm the grandson of immigrants, the son of a construction worker. My wife April and I have four amazing daughters. I was the youngest CEO in the history of the New York Stock Exchange, created thousands of jobs and then served in Congress. That's the type of background -- and my platform is about real solutions, not impossible promises, that can beat Trump and govern. Thank you.
BASH: Congressman Tim Ryan?
RYAN: America is great, but not everyone can access America's greatness. The systems that were built to lift us up are now suffocating the American people. The economic system that used to create $30, $40, $50 an hour jobs that you can have a good, solid middle-class living now force us to have two or three jobs just to get by.
Most families, when they go to sit at the kitchen table to do their bills, they get a pit in the middle of their stomach. We deserve better. And the political system is broken, too, because the entire conversation is about left or right, where are you at on the political system? And I'm here to say this isn't about left or right. This is about new and better. And it's not about reforming old systems. It's about building new systems.
And tonight, I will offer solutions that are bold, that are realistic and that are a clean break from the past.
BASH: Governor John Hickenlooper?
HICKENLOOPER: Last year Democrats flipped 40 Republican seats in the House, and not one of those 40 Democrats supported the policies of our front-runners at center stage.
Now, I share their progressive values, but I'm a little more pragmatic. I was out of work for two whole years until I started what became the largest brew pub in America. And I learned the small -- small business lessons of how to provide service and teamwork and became a top mayor, and as governor of Colorado created the number one economy in the country.
We also expanded health care and reproductive rights. We attacked climate change head-on. We beat the NRA. We did not build massive government expansions.
Now, some will promise a bill tonight or a plan for tonight. What we focused on was making sure that we got people together to get things done, to provide solutions to problems, to make sure that we -- that we worked together and created jobs. That's how we're going to beat Donald Trump. That's how we're going to win Michigan and the country.
BASH: Senator Amy Klobuchar?
KLOBUCHAR: Let's get real. Tonight we debate, but ultimately, we have to beat Donald Trump. My background, it's a little different than his. I stand before you today as a granddaughter of an iron ore miner, as a daughter of a union teacher and a newspaper man, as the first woman elected to the U.S. Senate from the state of Minnesota and a candidate for president of the United States.
That's because we come from a country of shared dreams, and I have had it with the racist attacks. I have had it with a president that says one thing on TV that has your back and then you get home and you see those charges for prescription drugs and cable and college.
You're going to hear a lot of promises up here, but I'm going to tell you this. Yes, I have bold ideas, but they are grounded in reality. And, yes, I will make some simple promises. I can win this. I'm from the Midwest. And I have won every race, every place, every time. And I will govern with integrity, the integrity worthy of the extraordinary people of this nation.
BASH: Congressman Beto O'Rourke?
O'ROURKE: I'm running for president because I believe that America discovers its greatness at its moments of greatest need. This moment will define us forever, and I believe that in this test America will be redeemed.
In the face of cruelty and fear from a lawless president, we will choose to be the nation that stands up for the human rights of everyone, for the rule of law for everyone, and a democracy that serves everyone. Whatever our differences, we know that, before we are anything else, we are Americans first, and we will ensure that each one of us is well enough and educated enough and paid enough to realize our full potential.
We will meet these challenges here at home, and we will lead the world in those that we face abroad, successfully confronting endless war and climate change. At this moment of truth, let us pursue our national promise and make a more perfect union of everyone, by everyone, and for everyone.
BASH: Mayor Pete Buttigieg?
BUTTIGIEG: I'm running for president because our country is running out of time. It is even bigger than the emergency of the Trump presidency. Ask yourself how somebody like Donald Trump ever gets within cheating distance of the Oval Office in the first place.
It doesn't happen unless America is already in a crisis -- an economy that's not working for everyone, endless war, climate change. We have lived this in my industrial Midwestern hometown. My generation has lived this as long as we have been alive.
And it’s only accelerating. Science tells us we have 12 years before we reach the horizon of catastrophe when it comes to our climate. By 2030, the average house in this country will cost half a million bucks and a women’s right to choose may not even exist.
We are not going to be able to meet this moment by recycling the same arguments, policies, and politicians that have dominated Washington for as long as I have been alive. We've got to summon the courage to walk away from the past and do something different. This is our shot. That is why I'm running for president.
BASH: Senator Elizabeth Warren?
WARREN: Donald Trump disgraces the office of president every single day. And anyone on this stage tonight or tomorrow night would be a far better president. I promise, no matter who our candidate is, I will work my heart out to beat Donald Trump and to elect a Democratic Congress.
But our problems didn't start with Donald Trump. Donald Trump is part of a corrupt, rigged system that has helped the wealthy and the well-connected and kicked dirt in the faces of everyone else.
We're not going to solve the urgent problems that we face with small ideas and spinelessness. We're going to solve them by being the Democratic Party of big structural change. We need to be the party that fights for our democracy and our economy to work for everyone.
You know, I know what's broken in this country, I know how to fix it, and I will fight to make it happen.
BASH: Senator Bernie Sanders?
SANDERS: Tonight in America, as we speak, 87 million Americans are uninsured or underinsured, but the health care industry made $100 billion in profits last year.
Tonight, as we speak, right now, 500,000 Americans are sleeping out on the street, and yet companies like Amazon that made billions in profits did not pay one nickel in federal income tax.
Tonight, half of the American people are living paycheck to paycheck, and yet 49 percent of all new income goes to the top 1 percent.
SANDERS: Tonight, the fossil fuel industry continues to receive hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks while they destroy this planet. We have got to take on Trump’s racism, his sexism, xenophobia and come together in an unprecedented grassroots movement, to not only defeat Trump but to transform our economy and our government.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Sanders.
Health Care:
Let's start the debate with the number-one issue for Democratic voters, health care. And Senator Sanders, let's start with you. You support Medicare for all, which would eventually take private health insurance away from more than 150 million Americans, in exchange for government-sponsored health care for everyone.
Congressman Delaney just referred to it as bad policy. And previously, he has called the idea "political suicide that will just get President Trump re-elected." What do you say to Congressman Delaney?
SANDERS: You're wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
Right now, we have a dysfunctional health care system: 87 million uninsured or underinsured, $500,000 -- 500,000 Americans every year, going bankrupt because of medical bills, 30,000 people dying while the health care industry makes tens of billions of dollars in profit.
Five minutes away from me and John is a country, it's called Canada. They guarantee health care to every man, woman and child as a human right. They spend half of what we spend. And by the way, when you end up in a hospital in Canada, you come out with no bill at all. Health care is a human right, not a privilege. I believe that, I will fight for that.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Sanders.
Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: Well, I'm right about this. We can create a universal health care system to give everyone basic health care for free, and I have a proposal to do it. But we don't have to go around and be the party of subtraction, and telling half the country, who has private health insurance, that their health insurance is illegal.
My dad, the union electrician, loved the health care he got from the IBEW. He would never want someone to take that away. Half of Medicare beneficiaries now have Medicare Advantage, which is private insurance, or supplemental plans. It's also bad policy. It'll underfund the industry, many hospitals will close...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: ... and it's bad policy.
TAPPER: Senator Sanders, I want to -- I...
WARREN (?): My name was also mentioned in this.
TAPPER: We're going to come to you in one second, but let me go to Senator Sanders right now.
Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: The fact of the matter is, tens of millions of people lose their health insurance every single year when they change jobs or their employer changes that insurance. If you want stability in the health care system, if you want a system which gives you freedom of choice with regard to a doctor or a hospital, which is a system which will not bankrupt you, the answer is to get rid of the profiteering of the drug companies...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
SANDERS: ... and the insurance companies, move to Medicare for all.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: But now he’s talking about a different issue. What I’m talking about is really simple. We should deal with the tragedy of the uninsured and give everyone health care as a right. But why do we got to be the party of taking something away from people?
WARREN: No. No one is the party...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Hold on one second, Senator.
DELANEY: That's what they're running on. They're running on...
WARREN: No.
DELANEY: ... telling half the country that your health insurance is illegal. It says it right in the bill.
TAPPER: All right, thank you.
DELANEY: We don't have to do that. We can give everyone health care...
TAPPER (?): OK.
DELANEY: ... and allow people to have choice. That's the American way.
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
Senator Warren?
WARREN: So, look. Let's -- let's be clear about this. We are the Democrats. We are not about trying to take away health care from anyone. That's what the Republicans are trying to do.
(APPLAUSE)
And we should stop using Republican talking points in order to talk with each other about how to best provide that health care.
Now, I want to have a chance to tell the story about my friend Ady Barkan. Ady is 35 years old. He has a wife, Rachael, he has a cute little boy named Carl. He also has ALS and it's killing him. Ady has health insurance, good health insurance...
TAPPER: Senator?
WARREN: ... and it's not nearly enough.
TAPPER: Senator? I want to -- I'm coming right...
WARREN: No, this is important.
TAPPER: ... I'm staying with you, I'm staying with you. But you exceeded your time. So let me just stay with you on Medicare for all.
WARREN: All right.
TAPPER: At the last debate, you said you’re, quote, “with Bernie on Medicare for all.” Now, Senator Sanders has said that people in the middle class will pay more in taxes to help pay for Medicare for all, though that will be offset by the elimination of insurance premiums and other costs. Are you also, quote, “with Bernie” on Medicare for all when it comes to raising taxes on middle-class Americans to pay for it?
WARREN: So giant corporations and billionaires are going to pay more. Middle-class families are going to pay less out of pocket for their health care. And I'd like to finish talking about Ady, the guy who has ALS...
(CROSSTALK)
WARREN: This isn’t funny. This is somebody who has health insurance and is dying. And every month, he has about $9,000 in medical bills that his insurance company won’t cover. His wife, Rachael, is on the phone for hours and hours and hours, begging the insurance company, “Please cover what the doctors say he needs.”
He talks about what it's like to go online with thousands of other people to beg friends, family, and strangers for money so he can cover his medical expenses.
The basic profit model of an insurance company is taking as much money as you can in premiums and pay out as little as possible in health care coverage. That is not working for Americans...
TAPPER: Thank you.
WARREN: ... across this country...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: Medicare for All will fix that, and that's why I'll fight for it.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. Just a point of clarification...
(APPLAUSE)
... in 15 extra seconds, would you raise taxes on the middle class to pay for Medicare for All, offset, obviously, by the elimination of insurance premiums, yes or no?
WARREN: Costs will go up for billionaires and go up for corporations. For middle-class families, costs -- total costs -- will go down.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Governor Bullock, I want to bring you in. You do not support Medicare for All. How do you respond to Senator Warren?
BULLOCK: No, health care is so personal to all of us. Never forget when my 12-year-old son had a heart attack within 24 hours of his life. Had to be life-flighted to Salt Lake City. But because we had good insurance, he's here with me tonight.
At the end of the day, I'm not going to support any plan that rips away quality health care from individuals. This is an example of wish list economics. It used to be just Republicans who wanted to repeal and replace. Now many Democrats do, as well. We can get there with a public option, negotiating drug prices, ending...
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor Bullock.
I want to bring in Mayor Buttigieg. On the topic of whether or not the middle class should pay higher taxes in exchange for guaranteed health care and the elimination of insurance premiums, how do you respond, Mayor?
BUTTIGIEG: So we don't have to stand up here speculating about whether the public option will be better or a Medicare for All environment will be better than the corporate options. We can put it to the test.
That's the concept of my Medicare for All Who Want It proposal. That way, if people like me are right that the public alternative is going to be not only more comprehensive, but more affordable than any of the corporate options around there, we'll see Americans walk away from the corporate options into that Medicare option, and it will become Medicare for All without us having to kick anybody off their insurance.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Just 15 seconds on the clarification. You are willing to raise taxes on middle-class Americans in order to have universal coverage with the disappearance of insurance premiums, yes or no?
BUTTIGIEG: I think you can buy into it. That's the idea of Medicare for All Who Want It. Look, this is a distinction without a difference, whether you're paying the same money in the form of taxes or premiums. Look, in this country, if you have health coverage -- if you don't have health coverage, you're paying too much for care, and if you do have health coverage, you're paying too much for care.
TAPPER: Thank you, Mayor Buttigieg. I want to bring in Congressman O'Rourke on the topic of whether the middle class should pay higher taxes in exchange for universal coverage and the elimination of insurance premiums. What's your response?
O'ROURKE: The answer is no. The middle class will not pay more in taxes in order to ensure that every American is guaranteed world-class health care. I think we're being offered a false choice, some who want to improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins, others who want a Medicare for All program that will force people off of private insurance, I have a better path.
Medicare for America. Everyone who is uninsured is enrolled in Medicare tomorrow. Those who are insufficiently insured are enrolled...
TAPPER: Congressman...
O'ROURKE: ... in Medicare...
TAPPER: Just a 15 seconds...
O'ROURKE: And those who have employer-sponsored insurance...
TAPPER: Who is offering -- who is offering a false choice here?
O'ROURKE: Jake, this is important.
TAPPER: Who's offering a false choice here?
O’ROURKE: You have some. Governor Bullock, who’s said that we will improve the Affordable Care Act at the margins with a public option. You have others to my right who are talking about taking away people’s choice for the private insurance they have or members of unions. I was listening to Dee Taylor in Nevada...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman. Governor Bullock...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: ... he just said you're offering a false choice, sir.
BULLOCK: Congressman, not at all. You know, it took us decades and false starts to get the Affordable Care Act. So let's actually build on it. A public option, allowing anyone to buy in.
You know, we pay more for prescription drugs than any place actually in the world. We got nothing to show for it. Negotiate prescription drug prices. End surprise medical billing. That's the way that we can get there without disrupting the lives of 160 million people that like their employer-sponsored health insurance.
TAPPER: Congressman O’Rourke, you can respond. Congressman O’Rourke, you can respond.
O'ROURKE: Every estimate that I've seen of expanding ACA even through a public option still leaves millions of people uninsured and also means that people are not guaranteed the health care that they need, as the example that Senator Warren showed us.
Our plan ensures that everyone is enrolled in Medicare or can keep their employer-sponsored insurance. When we listen to the American people -- and this is what they want us to do -- they want everyone covered, but they want to be able to maintain choice...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
O'ROURKE: ... and our plan does that.
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman. I want to bring in Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Warren at the beginning of the night said that Democrats cannot bring -- cannot win the White House with small ideas and spinelessness. In the last debate, she said the politicians who are not supporting Medicare for All simply lack the will to fight for it. You do not support Medicare for All. Is Senator Warren correct? Do you just not lack the will to fight for it?
KLOBUCHAR: That is incorrect. I just have a better way to do this. And in one of my first debates, Jake, I was called a street fighter from the iron range by my opponent. And when she said it, I said thank you.
So this is what I think we need to get done. We need the public option. That's what Barack Obama wanted, and it would bring health care costs down for everyone.
And by the way, I just don't buy this. I've heard some of these candidates say that it's somehow not moral if you -- not moral to not have that public option. Well, Senator Sanders was actually on a public option bill last year, and that was, Bernie, the Medicaid public option bill that Senator Schatz introduced.
Clearly, this is the easiest way to move forward quickly, and I want to get things done. People can't wait. I've got my friend, Nicole, out there whose son was actually died trying to ration his insulin as a restaurant manager. And he died because he didn't have enough money to pay for it.
TAPPER: Senator...
SANDERS: Jake.
KLOBUCHAR: And Bernie and I have worked on pharmaceutical issues together.
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
KLOBUCHAR: We can get less expensive drugs.
TAPPER: Senator Sanders -- I'm going to go to Senator Sanders, then Senator Warren, because you both were mentioned. Senator Sanders?
SANDERS: As the author -- as the author of the Medicare bill, let me clear up one thing. As people talk about having insurance, there are millions of people who have insurance, they can't go to the doctor, and when they come out of the hospital, they go bankrupt. All right?
(APPLAUSE)
What I am talking about and others up here are talking about is no deductibles and no co-payments. And, Jake, your question is a Republican talking point. At the end of the day...
(APPLAUSE)
And by the way -- and by the way -- by the way -- the health care industry will be advertising tonight on this program.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. Senator Warren, it's your turn.
SANDERS: Oh, can I complete that, please?
TAPPER: Your time is up. Thirty seconds.
SANDERS: They will be advertising tonight with that talking point.
TAPPER: Senator Warren?
WARREN: So we have to think of this in terms of the big frame. What's the problem in Washington? It works great for the wealthy. It works great for those who can hire armies of lobbyists and lawyers. And it keeps working great for the insurance companies and the drug companies.
What it's going to take is real courage to fight back against them. These insurance companies do not have a God-given right to make $23 billion in profits and suck it out of our health care system.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: They do not have a God-given right...
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator.
(APPLAUSE)
KLOBUCHAR: On page eight of the bill it says...
WARREN: ... to put...
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I want to let Congressman Delaney in.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator. If we could all just stick to the rules of the time, that would be great. Congressman Delaney?
DELANEY: So I was -- I'm the only one on this stage who actually has experience in the health care business. And with all due respect, I don't think my colleagues understand the business. We have the public option, which is great.
SANDERS: It's not a business!
(APPLAUSE)
DELANEY: The public option is great, but it doesn't go far enough. It doesn't go far enough. I'm proposing universal health care, where everyone gets health care as a basic human right for free, but they have choices. My plan, BetterCare, is fully paid for without raising middle class tax options. So when we think about this debate...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: There's Medicare for All, which is extreme...
TAPPER: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: I was interrupted.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: I want to bring in -- I want to bring in Governor Hickenlooper. Governor Hickenlooper, I'd like to hear what you say about Senator Warren's suggestion that those people on the stage who are not in favor of Medicare for All lack the political will to fight for it.
HICKENLOOPER: Well, obviously, I disagree with that as much as I respect both of the senators to my right. You know, it comes down to that question of Americans being used to being able to make choices, to have the right to make a decision. And I think proposing a public option that allows some form of Medicare that maybe is a combination of Medicare Advantage and Medicare, but people choose it, and if enough people choose it, it expands, the quality improves, the cost comes down, more people choose it, eventually, in 15 years, you could get there, but it would be an evolution, not a revolution.
TAPPER: Thank you, Governor. Senator Warren?
WARREN: You know...
(UNKNOWN): Jake?
WARREN: ... we have tried this experiment with the insurance companies. And what they've done is they've sucked billions of dollars out of our health care system. And they force people to have to fight to try to get the health care coverage that their doctors and nurses say that they need.
Why does everybody -- why does every doctor, why does every hospital have to fill out so many complicated forms? It's because it gives insurance companies a chance to say no and to push that cost back on the patients.
(APPLAUSE)
TAPPER: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: That's what we have to fight.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Marianne Williamson. Ms. Williamson, how do you respond to the criticism from Senator Warren that you’re not willing to fight for Medicare for All?
WILLIAMSON: I don't know if Senator Warren said that about me specifically. I admire very much what Senator Warren has said and what Bernie has said.
But I have to say, I have -- I'm normally way over there with Bernie and Elizabeth on this one. I hear the others. And I have some concern about that, as well. And I do have concern about what the Republicans would say. And that's not just a Republican talking point. I do have concern that it will be difficult. I have concern that it will make it harder to win, and I have a concern that it'll make it harder to govern. Because if that's our big fight, then --
TAPPER: Thank you Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: The Republicans will so shut us down on everything else.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Mayor Buttigieg -- Mayor Buttigieg, your response?
BUTTIGIEG: It is time to stop worrying about what the Republicans will say. Look, if --
(APPLAUSE)
If it's true that if we embrace a far-left agenda they're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists. If we embrace a conservative agenda, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say we're a bunch of crazy socialists.
So let's just stand up for the right policy, go out there and defend it. That's the policy I'm putting forward, not because I think it's the right triangulation between Republicans here and Democrats there -- because I think it's the right answer for people like my mother-in-law who is here -- whose life was saved by the ACA, but who is still far too vulnerable to the fact that the insurance industry does not care about her --
TAPPER: Thank you Mayor Buttigieg, Senator Sanders your response?
SANDERS: Let's be clear what this debate is about. Nobody can defend the dysfunctionality of the current system. What we are taking on is the fact that over the last 20 years the drug companies and the insurance companies have spent $4.5 billion of your health insurance money on lobbying and campaign contributions.
That is why when I went to Canada the other day, people paid one-tenth the price in Canada for insulin that they're paying in the United States --
TAPPER: Thank you Senator. I want to bring in Congressman Tim Ryan, Congressman Ryan your response?
RYAN: So here we are in Detroit, home of the United Auto workers. We have all our union friends here tonight. This plan that's being offered by Senator Warren and Senator Sanders will tell those Union members who gave away wages in order to get good healthcare that they're going to lose their healthcare because Washington's going to come in and tell them they got a better plan.
This is the left and right thing -- new and better is this, move Medicare down to 50. Allow people to buy-in, Kaiser Permanente said that if they -- those 60 million people do that, they will see --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
RYAN: A 40 percent reduction --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
RYAN: In their healthcare cost, let businesses buy-in, Jake --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman. So Senator, let's talk about that. If Medicare for all is enacted, there are more than 600,000 union members here in Michigan who would be forced to give up their private healthcare plans.
Now, I understand that it would provide universal coverage -- but, can you guarantee those union members that the benefits under Medicare for all will be as good as the benefits that they're representatives -- their union reps fought hard to negotiate?
SANDERS: Well two things, they will be better because Medicare for all is comprehensive -- it covers all healthcare needs. For senior citizens it will finally include dental care, hearing aids and eyeglasses.
RYAN: But you don't know that -- you don't know that, Bernie.
SANDERS: Second of all --
TAPPER: I'll come to you in a second, Congressman.
SANDERS: I do know it, I wrote the damn bill. And second of all, second of all -- many of our union brothers and sisters, nobody more pro-union than me up here, are now paying high deductibles and copayments when we do Medicare for all, instead of having the company putting money in to healthcare, they can get decent wage increases, which they're not getting today.
TAPPER: I want to bring in Congressman Ryan to respond to what Senator Sanders just said.
RYAN: I mean, Senator Sanders does not know all of the union contracts in the United States. I'm trying to explain that these union members are losing their jobs, their wages have been stagnant, the world is crumbling around them -- the only thing they have is possibly really good healthcare.
And the Democratic message is going to be, we're going to go in and the only thing you have left we're going to take it and we're going to do better. I do not think that's a recipe for success for us, it's bad policy and it's certainly bad politics.
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney.
DELANEY: So the bill that Senator Sanders drafted, by definition will lower quality in healthcare, because it says specifically that the rates will be the same as current Medicare rates. And the data is clear, Medicare does not cover the cost of healthcare, it covers 80 percent of the costs of healthcare in this country.
And private insurance covers 120 percent, so if you start underpaying all the healthcare providers, you're going to create a two tier market where wealthy people buy their healthcare with cash, and the people who are forced -- like my dad, the union electrician --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman.
DELANEY: Will have that healthcare plan taken away from him --
TAPPER: Thank you Congressman --
DELANEY: They will be forced into an underfunded system.
TAPPER: I want to give Senator Sanders -- I want to give Senator Sanders a chance to respond.
SANDERS: On the Medicare for all, the hospitals will save substantial sums of money because they're not going to be spending a fortune doing billing and the other bureaucratic things that they have to do today.
Second of all --
DELANEY: I've done the math, it doesn't add up.
SANDERS: Maybe you did that and made money off of healthcare, but our job is to run a nonprofit healthcare system. Furthermore -- furthermore, when we say $500 billion a year by ending all of the incredible complexities that are driving every American crazy trying to deal with the health insurance companies --
TAPPER: Thank you Senator.
SANDERS: Hospitals will be better off than they are today.
TAPPER: Congressman Delaney, I want to let you have a chance to respond.
DELANEY: Listen, his math is wrong. That's all I'm saying -- that his math is wrong, it's been well-documented that if all the bills were paid at Medicare rate, which is specifically -- I think it's in section 1,200 of their bill, then many hospitals in this country would close.
I've been going around rural America, and I ask rural hospital administrators one question, "If all your bills were paid at the Medicare rate last year, what would happen?"
And they all look at me and say, "We would close."
But the question is, why do we have to be so extreme? Why can't we just give everyone health care as a right, and allow them to have choice?
BASH: Thank you, Congressman.
DELANEY: I'm starting to think this is not about health care...
BASH: Thank you, Congressman...
DELANEY: This is an anti-private-sector...
BASH: Thank you Congressman. We're going to move on.
DELANEY: ... strategy.
Immigration:
BASH: We're going to move on to the issue of immigration now. There is...
(APPLAUSE)
... widespread agreement on this stage on the need for immigration reform, a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, including dreamers. But there are some areas of disagreement.
Mayor Buttigieg, you're in favor of getting rid of the law that makes it a crime to come across the U.S. border illegally. Why won't that just encourage more illegal immigration?
BUTTIGIEG: When I am president, illegally crossing the border will still be illegal. We can argue over the finer points of which parts of this ought to be handled by civil law and which parts ought to be handled by criminal law. But we've got a crisis on our hands. And it's not just a crisis of immigration; it's a crisis of cruelty and incompetence that has created a humanitarian disaster on our southern border. It is a stain on the United States of America.
Americans want comprehensive immigration reform. And frankly, we've been talking about the same framework for my entire adult lifetime, protections for DREAMers; making sure that -- that we have a pathway to citizenship for the undocumented; cleaning up lawful immigration.
We know what to do. We know that border security can be part of that package and we can still be a nation of laws. The problem is we haven't had the will to get it done in Washington. And now we have a president who could fix it in a month, because there is that bipartisan agreement, but he needs it to be a crisis rather than an achievement. That will end on my watch.
BASH: But just a point of clarification, you did raise your hand in the last debate. You do want to decriminalize crossing the border illegally?
BUTTIGIEG: So in my view, if fraud is involved, then that's suitable for the criminal statute. If not, then it should be handled under civil law. But these show of hands are exactly what is wrong with the way that this race is being covered.
BASH: Well, we're not -- we're not doing that here.
BUTTIGIEG: And we appreciate that.
BASH: Congressman -- thank you. Congressman...
(APPLAUSE)
... O'Rourke, you live near the U.S.-Mexico border in El Paso. You disagree with Mayor Buttigieg on decriminalizing the border crossings. Please respond.
O'ROURKE: I do, because, in my administration, after we have waived citizenship fees for green card holders, more than 9 million of our fellow Americans; freed DREAMers from any fear of deportation; and stopped criminally prosecuting families and children for seeking asylum and refuge; end for-profit detention in this country; and then assist...
(APPLAUSE)
... those countries in Central America so that no family ever has to make that 2,000-mile journey, than I expect that people who come here follow our laws, and we reserve the right to criminally prosecute them if they do not.
BASH: Thank you, Congressman.
Senator Warren, you say the provision making illegal border crossings a crime is totally unnecessary. Please respond.
WARREN: So the problem is that, right now, the criminalization statute is what gives Donald Trump the ability to take children away from their parents. It's what gives him the ability to lock up people at our borders.
We need to continue to have border security, and we can do that, but what we can't do is not live our values. I've been down to the border. I have seen the mothers. I have seen the cages of babies. We must be a country that every day lives our values. And that means we cannot...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... make it a crime...
BASH: Just to clarify...
WARREN: ... when someone...
BASH: Thank you, Senator. Just to clarify, would you decriminalize...
WARREN: Yes.
BASH: ... illegal border crossings?
WARREN: The point is not about criminalization. That has given Donald Trump the tool to break families apart.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
WARREN: We need...
BASH: Governor Hickenlooper, your response?
HICKENLOOPER: I agree that we need secure borders. There's no question about that. And the frustration with what's going on in Washington is they're kicking the ball back and forth. Secure the borders, make sure whatever law we have doesn't allow children to be snatched from their parents and put in cages. How hard can that be?
We've got -- I don't know -- on the two debate nights, we've got 170 years of Washington experience. Somehow it seems like that should be fairly fixable.
WARREN: Well, and one way to fix it is to decriminalize. That's the whole point. What we're...
(APPLAUSE)
... looking for here is a way to take away the tool that Donald Trump has used...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... to break up families.
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren. Senator Klobuchar, your response?
KLOBUCHAR: I would say there is the will to change this in Congress. What's missing is the right person in the White House. I believe that immigrants don't diminish America; they are America. And if you want to do something...
(APPLAUSE)
... about border security, you first of all change the rules so people can seek asylum in those Northern Triangle countries.
Then, you pass the bill. And what the bill will do is, it will greatly reduce the deficit and give us some money for border security and for border processing the cases. And most of all, it will allow for a path to citizenship.
Because this is not just about the border...
BASH: Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: ... Donald Trump wants to use these people as political pawns, when we have people...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Klobuchar.
KLOBUCHAR: ... all over our country that simply want to work...
BASH: Thank you.
KLOBUCHAR: ... and obey the law.
BASH: Senator Sanders, you want to provide undocumented immigrants free health care and free college. Why won't this drive even more people to come to the U.S. illegally?
SANDERS: Because we’ll have strong border protections. But the main point I want to make is that what Trump is doing through his racism and his xenophobia, is demonizing a group of people. And as president, I will end that demonization.
If a mother and a child walk thousands of miles on a dangerous path, in my view, they are not criminals.
(APPLAUSE)
They are people fleeing violence. And I think the main thing that we’ve got to do -- among many others, and Beto made this point -- we’ve got to ask ourselves, “Why are people walking 2,000 miles to a strange country where they don’t know the language?”
So what we will do, the first week we are in the White House, is bring the entire hemisphere together to talk about how we rebuild Honduras...
BASH: Thank...
SANDERS: ... Guatemala and El Salvador so people do not have to flee their own countries.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
Governor Bullock, about two-thirds of Democratic voters and many of your rivals here for the nomination, support giving health insurance to undocumented immigrants. You haven't gone that far. Why not?
BULLOCK: Look, I think this is the part of the discussion that shows how often these debates are detached from people's lives. We've got 100,000 people showing up at the border right now. If we decriminalize entry, if we give health care to everyone, we'll have multiples of that. Don't take my word, that was President Obama's Homeland Security secretary that said that.
The biggest problem right now that we have with immigration, it's Donald Trump. He's using immigration to not only rip apart families, but rip apart this country. We can actually get to the point where we have safe borders, where we have a path to citizenship, where we have opportunities for Dreamers.
And you don't have to decriminalize everything. What you have to do is have a president in there with the judgment and the decency to treat someone that comes to the border like one of our own.
WARREN: You know, I just wanted to...
BASH: Senator...
WARREN: ... add on this...
BASH: ... he just said your plan in unrealistic. How do you respond?
WARREN: You know, I think that what we have to do, is we have to be an America that is clear about what we want to do with immigration. We need to expand legal immigration. We need to create a path for citizenship, not just for Dreamers but for grandmas and for people who have been working here in the farms and for students who have overstayed their visas...
(APPLAUSE)
... we need to fix the crisis at the border. And a big part of how we do that, is we do not play into Donald Trump's hands.
BULLOCK: But...
WARREN: He wants to stir up the crisis at the border because that's his overall message. It's -- if there's anything wrong in your life, blame them.
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
Governor Bullock, your response?
BULLOCK: But you are playing into Donald Trump's hands. The challenge isn't that it's a criminal offense to cross the border. The challenge is that Donald Trump is president, and using this to rip families apart.
A sane immigration system needs a sane leader. And we can do that without decriminalizing and providing health care for everyone.
And it's not me saying that, that's Obama's Homeland Security secretary...
WARREN: No.
BULLOCK: ... that said you'll cause further problems at the border, not making it better.
WARREN: What -- what you're saying is ignore the law. Laws matter. And it matters if we say our law is that we will lock people up who come here, seeking refuge, who come here, seeking asylum, that is not a crime. And as Americans, what we need to do is have a sane system that keeps us safe at the border, but does not criminalize the activity...
BASH: Thank you, Senator Warren.
WARREN: ... of a mother fleeing here for safety.
(CROSSTALK)
BULLOCK: Dana, I must correct the record
BASH: Congressman Ryan, are Senator Sanders’ proposals going to incentivize undocumented immigrants to come into this country illegally?
RYAN: Yes. And right now, if you want to come into the country, you should at least ring the doorbell. We have asylum laws. I saw the kids up in Grand Rapids, not far from here. It is shameful what's happening. But Donald Trump is doing it.
And even if you decriminalize, which we should not do, you still have statutory authority. The president could still use his authority to separate families. So we've got to get rid of Donald Trump. But you don't decriminalize people just walking into the United States. If they're seeking asylum, of course, we want to welcome them. We're a strong enough country to be able to welcome them.
And as far as the healthcare goes, undocumented people can buy healthcare too. I mean everyone else in America is paying for their healthcare. I think - I don't think it's a stretch for us to ask undocumented people in the country to also pay for healthcare.
BASH: Senator Sanders, your response?
SANDERS: Well, I have two things. A sane immigration policy moves the comprehensive immigration reform. It moves to a humane border policy, and which, by the way, we have enough administrative judges, so that we don’t have incredible backlogs that we have right now.
But to your answer your question, I happen to believe that when I talk about healthcare as a human right that applies to all people in this country, and under a Medicare for All single payer system, we could afford to do that.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: Senator Sanders, thank you. And Ms. Williamson, your response?
WILLIAMSON: Everything that we're talking about here tonight is what's wrong with American politics, and the Democratic Party needs to understand that we should be the party that talks, not just about symptoms, but also about causes. When it - when we're talking about healthcare, we need to talk about more than just the healthcare plan.
We need to realize, we have a sickness care rather than a healthcare system. We need to be the party talking about why so many of our chemical policies and our food policies and our agricultural policies and our environment policies and even our economic policies are leading to people sick to begin with.
LEMON: Thank you --
WILLIAMSON: That's what the democratic -- but I want to say more --
LEMON: Thank you, Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: -- about. OK.
LEMON: Thank you, Ms. Williamson.
WILLIAMSON: I hope you’ll come back to me this time.
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